I was with the firm here starting in the late ’80s and into the early ’90s and somewhere along that line, I took a part time contract with the public defender’s office. And this was very early in the creation of the statewide public defender system transitioning from the court appointed county system to the unitary state system. And in 1993 I became, I don’t remember, I was the fourth of fifth fulltime public defender in Minnesota outside of the metro area. I was hired to be the chief trial lawyer for the entire judicial district, 11 counties. And so I left the firm and went to work for the public defender’s office I’d say fulltime, it was often. I think my average was 70 plus hours a week, so it was more than fulltime. But I traveled throughout the district trying homicide and other major cases and I stayed with the public defender’s office for 10 years and during that time, I tried hundreds of jury trials throughout the district. And I think I really devoted myself to the craft of being a trial lawyer.